3237 pointsby byran 609 days ago323 comments

Hello! I'm Byran. I spent the past ~6 months engineering a laptop from scratch. It's fully open-source on GH at: https://github.com/Hello9999901/laptop

Discussion

Loading discussion

aunver · 609 days ago
Congratulations Byran, this is really impressive work!
teddy__d · 609 days ago
amazing job!!
baritodespa1 · 609 days ago
gg byran well played
handfuloflight · 609 days ago
What's the BOM?
- byran · 609 days ago
  Thanks for the question. I'm working on compiling the BOM in these few days. A preliminary R&D BOM is here (apologies, it's in Google Sheets): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17arbJvPqW6koqEJwAzne...
  - imcritic · 608 days ago
    This seems to list some components multiple times in a versioned way, did I get it right that this is rather a whole list of components you've bought while working on this project rather than the final list of the components needed to assemble the notebook you've built?
_fw · 609 days ago
Holy fuck People like Byran live amongst us Making their own laptops but from SCRATCH Imagine how good this man’s pasta carbonara tastes
- byran · 609 days ago
  Thank you so much!
ge96 · 609 days ago
damn it looks clean
spicysev · 609 days ago
Holy hell. This is so cool ~ an admirer
Palomides · 609 days ago
nice work! how much was it to get the case milled?
- byran · 609 days ago
  Thanks! Around $300 total from JLCCNC with 6061 aluminum, bead blasting, and matte black anodization (top, midplate, bottom).
  - Palomides · 608 days ago
    huh, actually not that bad
bflesch · 609 days ago
well done, thanks for documenting and congratulations on completing the project!
- byran · 609 days ago
  Truly appreciate it. I spent many weeks afterwards documenting the steps as thoroughly as I could. My email's on the site if anyone needs to reach out, as well. :)
laidoffamazon · 609 days ago
Very nice. Wish there were faster SOMs than the 3588 but maybe in a year or two. Looks like an MIT admissions portfolio project. Don’t know if it fits the uniqueness category for it but I guess the quality of the end product makes it good enough. Admittedly this isn’t fully open source like the Novena or the Reform but I doubt adcomms care. I just wish I was rich enough and skilled enough to be able to spend $4.5k on a neat project like this.
- byran · 609 days ago
  Thanks for your suggestions and criticism! Much appreciated. Which aspect of it (aside from the SoM, which I admittedly do not have the R&D to make in this timescale) isn't open-source? I'd love to hear your thoughts. The Novena and Reform are amazing pieces of engineering, but I believe they sacrifice the portability and looks for repairability which some people certainly prefer. I wanted to aim for something that a non-technical consumer might look and say "hmm, nice laptop!" and not think it came out of the matrix or built it myself. In terms of college, still waiting :)
andrewmcwatters · 609 days ago
Sick! Finally someone posting something that puts the “hacker” in HN. Love the parts research you did.
- byran · 609 days ago
  Thank you so much!
j3s · 609 days ago
VERY impressive. the laptop looks great. wish you could manufacture and sell the thing, i'd consider one :)
- byran · 609 days ago
  Maybe, depending on reception! I geared it so it could be manufactured at a semi-small scale. Unfortunately, I don't have the capacity to make them myself :(. Thank you for the interest!
- mwcampbell · 609 days ago
  Not to take anything away from this amazing achievement, but if you want a similar open-source laptop, also based on an RK3588, that will actually be manufactured and sold, check out the MNT Reform Next: https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/mnt-reform-next
snake_doc · 609 days ago
Okay, I'll help him humble brag: Bryan is in his last year of high school. </end> Keep building!
- GardenLetter27 · 609 days ago
  You study quantum mechanics in High School in the USA?
  - byran · 609 days ago
    We discussed wave functions, probability, fermions/bosons, did calculations for particle in a box, the Schrödinger model, and went just up to deriving the hydrogen atom. Nothing super fancy, but it was one heck of an experience!
    - stackghost · 609 days ago
      But did you win the Putnam?
      - dang · 609 days ago
        For those who don't know, stackghost is referencing this classic moment on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35079
        throwup238 · 609 days ago
        I wonder how @sanj feels about their moment of fame (they’re still active on HN).
        dang · 609 days ago
        As I've pointed out before, his concession at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35350 was both witty and graceful. It's great that he's still active here! and anyway he's done a ton of things that are a lot more important than that bit.
        throwup238 · 609 days ago
        I hope that’s in the highlights :)
    - GardenLetter27 · 608 days ago
      It's really interesting, in the UK I don't think we did (but I later studied Physics at university) - but we did have Further Maths which covered more advanced mathematics. Also your project is incredible btw, maybe look into robotics too.
      - alias_neo · 608 days ago
        > in the UK I don't think we did Perhaps you didn't go to a high school quite like this one: https://exeter.edu/admissions/financial-aid/tuition-costs/
    - Izikiel43 · 608 days ago
      > High school quantum theory > Nothing super fancy Yeah, that's college level stuff, it's pretty fancy for high school, you go to a nice place :)
  - mattnewton · 609 days ago
    Some do- He thanks Phillips Exeter at the bottom of the project page, which is a very fancy private highschool, probably the best in the US.
    - macNchz · 609 days ago
      I went to a peer school that had at least a couple of math teachers with PhDs—my friends at the time who took their classes were, if I recall, nationally competitive in math olympiads.
  - govg · 609 days ago
    Not all high schools but the US has some schools which allow you to take very advanced material / even get a head start on your college credits.
  - mschuster91 · 609 days ago
    We had a cursory introduction at least about 15 years ago in Germany, it's not that far off.
  - rafram · 609 days ago
    It's more possible than you'd think! The options are basically: - Go to a fancy private school like Phillips Exeter - Really luck out and get into a great public STEM magnet school - Homeschool and take private classes / have very smart parents
    - rafram · 609 days ago
      Oh, or: - Concurrently enroll at a community college (a really great option that I think every country should have)
      - jogu · 609 days ago
        I tested out of high school and went to community college instead, one of the best decisions of my life.
    - 2muchcoffeeman · 609 days ago
      Can't tell if this is sarcasm.
      - rafram · 609 days ago
        The community college option is available to anyone who’s willing to spend a couple evenings a week taking classes, so I don’t think it’s really that out of reach. Most countries don’t offer their high school students any opportunity to study material that advanced.
        2muchcoffeeman · 608 days ago
        Your first 3 options are mostly “be born to the right parents”. So I couldn’t tell if your remark of “it’s more possible than you’d think!” Was serious or not. Hell I went to a really selective school. But even then, within that the top students, whom I was not one, got to do some extra stuff that would have greatly interested me and I would have been able to do. But my grades in humanities weren’t good enough to be one of the best.
        ericjmorey · 608 days ago
        Community college course options often won't include quantum mechanics.
    - cbmamolo · 609 days ago
      All I did was provide him the space and time to work on the project ... his parents funded the entire project, but will get reimbursement soon. It's the great minds, and the desire to have meaningful projects that make Exeter such an awesome place. Byran is one of a kind!!!!
    - notnaut · 609 days ago
      Some public schools in very wealthy counties will teach some basic quantum mechanics in honors/AP classes, too. All you have to do is acquire parents that can afford the shittiest neighborhood in those districts!
      - anonzzzies · 609 days ago
        They did in mine in the Netherlands. Also electronics and programming (this was a long time ago so it was all pretty new); it was a special class to prep for university more than the regular curriculum does, but it was a public school and not even a very good one; just a few really good and switched on teachers (physics, math and chem).
  - TeMPOraL · 609 days ago
    In the high school in Poland I attended, I lucked into being in a class with a university TA assigned as physics teacher, and he did manage to sneak in QM - more-less the same stuff as 'Hello9999901 listed in their reply. (He also taught us differentiation in the first semester, and basic integrals in the second, because as he said, you cannot learn physics properly without those tools. This annoyed the heck out of our math teacher; she ended up deciding that, if we're learning this anyway, we might as well learn it properly - and gave us a much heavier intro to calculus in the last months of the last year.)
  - volemo · 609 days ago
    You don’t study basics of QM in your high schools?
  - apricot · 608 days ago
    The USA has some great schools. OP goes to Phillips Exeter Academy, which is an exclusive private school that ranks among the best high schools in the country.
- chuckwfinley · 609 days ago
  This is incredible work for anyone, let alone a high schooler. Seriously impressive! I hope this turns into something I can buy (maybe a diy kit), in the future!
  - byran · 609 days ago
    Thanks! I've been considering it (or enough detailed instructions to build one) since starting the project. I need to get a working model first though ;)
  - ricardonunez · 609 days ago
    We are going full circle, Woz will be proud.
- d3rockk · 609 days ago
  HOF HN post.
  - gerdesj · 609 days ago
    Care to explain?
    - belden · 609 days ago
      I think the message means that this post is worthy of a Hall of Fame on HackerNews.
      - d3rockk · 608 days ago
        ^
MrDrMcCoy · 609 days ago
This is fantastic! I hope to follow in your footsteps as soon as a decent RISC-V board can supplant that RK3588.
- byran · 609 days ago
  I'd love to see one; hope to see that day come!!
junon · 609 days ago
This is so, so cool. Reminds me of Clockwork Pi stuff. Thanks for sharing :)
petsfed · 609 days ago
This is really cool! There are some obvious next steps for improving the polish on this, would you say you were more resource constrained, time constrained, or skill constrained? For instance, did you put any thought into making flex PCBs to make the cable routing easier? I also think the concept of a laptop with a removable wireless keyboard is brilliant, and I think your implementation is a lot cleaner than e.g. the Surface or the iPad's case-keyboards. If I had a laptop that did that, it would be my go-to travel machine. One less thing to cart around.
- byran · 609 days ago
  Hey! Thank you for the question. For sure, it's not a polished product and I don't mean for it to be. It works surprisingly well. (I've used it as my daily driver for school) With college apps and school work, the time was tight. I'd say that was the most limiting. Of course, resource and skill played its role. I did consider flex PCBs, but I didn't have the time to follow through with all the ambitions (i also wanted an FOC input sigh). I'm honored that you think my keyboard implementation is nice! I put a lot of thought into it — truly. Oh btw the keyboard works just as well as a solo device. I've used the keyboard more than the computer in some ways. Thanks!
  - petsfed · 608 days ago
    If you keep this idea alive (and I hope you do!), you might consider shrinking the keyboard battery and designing its docking configuration so that it automatically charges from the main battery when stored in the laptop. A 3 month keyboard battery capacity seems sort of excessive when its mechanically part of a machine that charges daily. I think one of the limitations to the keyboard concept you have is that it complicates using the laptop base as a stand for the screen in a tablet configuration. Outside of tablets with fully detachable keyboards (e.g. the Surface or the iPad pro), I don't think anybody has a good design for that. Was a touchscreen ever a consideration for stretch goals or design for expansion?
- daquisu · 609 days ago
  Regarding a laptop with a removable wireless keyboard, ZenBook Duo has that, although the touchpad is removed with the keyboard. It also has two screens and its own stand, I use it as my travel machine.
  - petsfed · 608 days ago
    Hmmm. That's also an interesting solution to the same problem. Although honestly, the scenario where I want to have a removable keyboard, I'm likely using an external display (probably a hotel TV), and a small wireless mouse is a lot easier to transport than a keyboard (and more ergonomic than a keyboard small enough for transport) so the extra screen and trackpad are sort of lost on me.
- vidarh · 608 days ago
  Also loved the detachable keyboard (which has me fantasize about a detachable screen as well + external hdmi/displayport, as I hate the working positions I end up in with a laptop, so it'd be nice to be able to get a more comfortable setup in a hotel room etc. that still packages up to a laptop.
camtarn · 609 days ago
Genuinely incredible work. Looking forward to seeing what other cool projects you do in the future.
chironjit · 609 days ago
I actually spent quite some time trying to build a custom driver for a custom screen for my Framework 13, only to burn the screen driver. Very impressed by what you have done here. Kudos to you on achieving designing and building a whole laptop!
- byran · 609 days ago
  Thank you so much! If you'd like to discuss further, please let me know! My email is in the website. I have a Framework 16 and have tons of ideas. Never got around to it though. (I also burned a few screens, and had 3 as backup haha).
KolmogorovComp · 609 days ago
Very impressive work, and also nice video editing. Congrats.
amelius · 609 days ago
I'm curious how the USB-C connectors are made to the outside of the enclosure. What I've found is that it's a bad idea to use USB extension cables; these can introduce bit errors if e.g. you copy large amounts of data (order of terabytes). It's much better to insert a USB drive directly into a carrier board, but this is not always physically possible.
- byran · 609 days ago
  It's almost standard to have the USB-C have extra wiggle-room (around 1mm or so). Then, the housing is 1mm past the USB-C connector. That's how the casings are made so that when you stick the connector in, it's flush or nearly so. I agree with USB extension cables concerns too! The error would increase depending on the quality (impedance, power, etc.)
  - amelius · 609 days ago
    > Then, the housing is 1mm past the USB-C connector. Yes, this is often the case but sometimes the USB-C connectors are on the same side of the board where you also need to plug in some cables that you need internally (maybe even other USB devices). Thus the option of letting an USB-C port stick out on one side of the enclosure is not always available. > I agree with USB extension cables concerns too! The error would increase depending on the quality (impedance, power, etc.) Yes, and the user of your device (who doesn't see the internal cable) will assume that they can plug in their own cable, so you'll have two cables.
madsmith · 609 days ago
Amazing project.
lxe · 609 days ago
This is one of those special HN posts that demonstrates outsized excellence on the author's behalf. Watched the video and I'm very impressed.
- byran · 609 days ago
  Truly appreciate it thank you so much!! I poured my life and soul into this haha.
  - cbmamolo · 609 days ago
    You sure did!
tuktuktuk · 609 days ago
Amazin! what's the total cost for you?
- byran · 609 days ago
  Hanging around 5 grand. Unfortunately the R&D process was rough! The R&D BOM is linked below, feel free to take a look. If you were to build it, I'd estimate it costing around 1500 dollars (or less).
  - someothherguyy · 609 days ago
    Back in my day, I thought spending $50 in wood shop was rough.
    - megous · 607 days ago
      Yeah. My "budget" for similar scale project (sw, fw, hw, enclosure co-design) in high school 24 years ago was about $200. I'd have loved to have these kinds of resources/lab tools access. I even made [private, so that tool makers did not patch the holes/obfuscate] cracks for Eagle, HI-TECH C compilers and Solid Edge, to have some nice SW tools to work with, without arbitrary limits. But I sure had plenty of time, and it was fun to always be learning something new. Simpler times when it was out of reach to have anything done for me, like prototype PCBs and let alone assembly. :) These days are absolutely crazy in comaprison, with all the ready-made SBCs or SBC modules, and free software, and like $4 PCB prototyping services and CNC machining, 3D printing, $15 powerful FPGAs, $7 fully Linux capable 1GHz Cortex-A7 tiny computer modules for bread-boards, and cheap components from China... Still remember going to a shop buying single unit amounts of SMD resistors and capacitors over the counter. Now I can get 4000 unit SMD sample book for a few $ and never think about it again. Even my 2000 self would be able to afford it without much trouble. It's kind of a force multiplier easily available even for high-schoolers.
  - tuktuktuk · 609 days ago
    Thank you for sharing!
nashashmi · 609 days ago
Looks good. Could be a small step to my vision for a dock dependent palm sized pc with high powered cpu connected by a single USB C with no other ports except for micro sd. And backed up by a mini battery for power stability on low watt chargers.
- byran · 609 days ago
  Thanks! Have you taken a look at the Khadas Mind [1]? Super similar to what you're talking about with the handheld PC. [1]: https://www.khadas.com/product-page/mind
  - nashashmi · 608 days ago
    Wow. Precisely what I have been looking for. This is great. And mind 2 is even better.
mschuster91 · 609 days ago
Holy. That's an achievement very few people can claim. Wonder if HN has a "hall of fame", a worthy entry. You did the smart thing there with the SoM (for the uninitiated: power sequencing to individual parts of an SoC and its external components is an epic hassle to get right and that's assuming you actually have proper documentation - without it it's an utter pain), but how in hell did you get the high frequency stuff working out on what was likely your first or second try? This is IMHO where your work really shines. USB-C, DisplayPort (at 4K to boot) and PCIe at modern speeds are all but black magic to most, this isn't digital any more, this is good old analog circuitry and physics at work that most people don't even learn in university any more.
- byran · 609 days ago
  Thank you so much — yes, that was the hardest part of this entire project! I spent 2 months getting eDP working (second PCB thankfully). I had the honor of learning high speed signaling from the best. I met some super cool people from Silicon Valley and research universities (from past work, like the MUREX Ethernet Switch). The ZMK Firmware community too!
  - mschuster91 · 609 days ago
    > from past work, like the MUREX Ethernet Switch Just looked it up... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40694254 for those who want a direct link. Jesus. Wish I had had even a fraction your talent at that age. Most impressive.
    - byran · 609 days ago
      I truly appreciate your encouragement. I can only imagine how successful you are! Thank you!
aio2 · 609 days ago
my guess is when doing college applications, you figured you had to do something special to get into a good college, so you decided to do this lol Doesn't matter why, pretty sick. I'm studying physics myself, so its pretty inspiring to see you do this
- byran · 609 days ago
  Thank you so much! The story behind the laptop was quite interesting — my friends and I were going to an athletics event far away, and he brought up the idea that I should make a laptop for my senior project as a joke (our school offers 1 free class for a "project", graciously funded by the school). I said "hell yeah." That's pretty much how this came to be, college didn't play much of a role imho. And best of luck studying physics!
triyambakam · 609 days ago
Hey Bryan, great work and very inspiring. This has me meta curious about how a project like this is possible. Besides the support from your school, I imagine that your parents have been a big part of your success?
gerdesj · 609 days ago
At which point was the mental map created within Obsidion and did you really need it? You are clearly a very clever person and you do not need a web app wiggly graph thingie to throw ideas together. There's no need to gild a lily! Please keep the faith - I love that you are focussed on being altruistic and sharing your skills to the benefit of everyone. Thank you.
montroser · 609 days ago
Byran... This is seriously impressive. You are very blessed to be so capable in so many disciplines -- design, hardware, software, storytelling. It is a massively complicated undertaking, and you executed in style . Nice work, and remember to use your formidable powers for good!
- byran · 609 days ago
  Thank you so much! For certain; goodness without knowledge is weak and feeble and knowledge without goodness is dangerous. It was a truly difficult undertaking! I was ready to quit at so many moments, but I always think about the final mission of sharing this little piece of knowledge with the world. :)
  - MegaDeKay · 609 days ago
    My hat is off to you, good sir. Way off. This is an unbelievable accomplishment, doubly so given that you're still in high school (!!!), triple-so given the time you did it in, quadruple-so given that you did it all yourself, etc etc etc. I was reading this over thinking "this guy should be working for Framework". It would be a total win-win.
    - byran · 609 days ago
      Thank you so much! I'm currently working for Keychron!
      - freedomben · 609 days ago
        If you do decide to look at framework, I can help you get your resume in front of a high level decision maker. I agree you'd make a great fit with framework.
        byran · 609 days ago
        Woah! That would be amazing! I sent you an email just now. Thank you so much for this opportunity!!
  - noman-land · 609 days ago
    Really amazing and impressive work. And also an excellent resource for future explorers. One thing I didn't see mentioned in the video is the total cost of all the materials to complete one laptop not including all the experimentation cost. I'd be super curious about that.
    - byran · 609 days ago
      I have the R&D BOM in a link below [1] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17arbJvPqW6koqEJwAzne... Thanks.
      - noman-land · 609 days ago
        Thank you! For anyone else looking for the top line number, it's $4,673.81. Really nice work. I wish you much success in life.
        bluepuma77 · 609 days ago
        "NOTE: THIS IS R&D total cost. The DIY price should be less than $1500"
        noman-land · 608 days ago
        Thank you for this.
        cbmamolo · 608 days ago
        I have yet to finish processing reimbursement. LOL. His parents pre-paid for this project.
        nwellinghoff · 608 days ago
        Best 5 grand they ever spent. Byran your cross discipline knowledge is amazing. Well done! Quick question, are your parents in technology and science or are you self taught? Always like to hear about the backgrounds that create the environment for something like this to come together.
        byran · 608 days ago
        I've met amazing people throughout my journey thus far, but no. I have no background in engineering, but my parents have always been supportive. I started falling in love with it in 9th grade with keyboards + ZMK!
        richardw · 608 days ago
        Others: don’t downvote this, it seems legit. See their other comments.
      - jensgk · 608 days ago
        Great work! I am also interested in what tools you needed to do the work. Could you elaborate on that?
guywithahat · 609 days ago
Sometimes I wonder why I didn’t get into MIT, and then I see people like this exist
- ttoinou · 607 days ago
  I’m pretty sure it’d take me 7 hard years of studying electronics / hardware / linux to get his level
umrashrf · 609 days ago
I’d like to follow up to see how it handles heat or excessive heat if any
- byran · 609 days ago
  I played Minecraft (epic gaming) with friends for a few hours, no problem! The massive heat capacity of the copper + heatpipe + active fan is good enough.
  - p0w3n3d · 607 days ago
    It might be a stupidly specific question, but may I ask what is the screen resolution and how many FPS you got? I am asking because I've been considering buying an Orange PI with RK3588 for gaming purposes.
jwr · 609 days ago
Congratulations! From someone who does mixed electronics+mechanical design: this is hard . There are moments of desperation where you realize that everything depends on everything else, and there is no way to achieve all of your design goals. You then have to realize that engineering is all about compromises, and move on, compromising — but this is very difficult. It's easy to get bogged down in details and dependencies and never finish the project. It's very impressive work and it makes me so happy to see real hacker news on HN. This is real hacking.
- byran · 609 days ago
  Thank you so, so much! You phrased it so well. The moments of desperation really hit you hard. I have uncountably many loose ends, but oh well, bad engineering :(. Honored that HN thinks I'm a hacker :)
geerlingguy · 609 days ago
Always fun to read an article like this, for humility's sake. Wow! And I'm guessing if he attempts a 2nd edition, it'll probably be even thinner, lighter, and faster!
- byran · 609 days ago
  Oh my god! Jeff — huge fan and subscriber!! Thank you for your words of encouragement :). Your videos have been a huge source of inspiration for me.
eddywebs · 609 days ago
This is really cool ! Kudos for getting this started. I wonder if initiatives such as one laptop per child could have been effective with this kind of approach. Eitherway I hope this project goes along way as I could see its application not only at home but also in developing nations.
xarope · 609 days ago
Wow this is fantastic, great job! I hope this heralds a new era of HW engineering. P.S. @Hello9999901 any relation to "Bunnie" Huang?
- byran · 609 days ago
  Haha I wish, but no. Just surname coincidence.
webprofusion · 609 days ago
This is what the internet was invented for.
- byran · 609 days ago
  Thank you!
stuckkeys · 609 days ago
Holly crap. This man is the messiah of tech. Keep going my guy. That is so impressive. I look forward to what you do next.
reactordev · 609 days ago
Man!! This is sooo impressive. I did a little research on making my own motherboard (not even for a laptop) and didn’t get anywhere nearly as far. I just want to throw money at you! We need an open source laptop!!
- byran · 609 days ago
  Thank you!! After schooling is done :)
eviks · 609 days ago
Have you thought about finally adding a split ergonomic keyboard to a laptop instead of the standard slab?
- byran · 609 days ago
  That's a sick idea too! Wouldn't be too hard. I'll keep that in mind never thought of it before even though I've used my fair share.
  - eviks · 609 days ago
    There was a very old ThinkPad design that allowed the keyboard to take more space than the width of the laptop, but that was also bad old non-split layout But at least not wasting existing left/ right side space and having a gap in the middle instead would be a nice start Or maybe even get to the best of the portable/non-portable worlds: since the keyboard is wireless, you could detach 2 halves of the keyboard and place them on a desk at ergonomic shoulder distance And this would allow you to also ergonomically position the laptop itself for a better screen position - vertical, just like your desktop monitor ThinkPad: https://youtu.be/RRHFi_l9UR0
    - xarope · 609 days ago
      The 701 "butterfly"? It was cool for its time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_ThinkPad_701
noisy_boy · 609 days ago
Framework team, hire this guy, when it's legal :)
- amatecha · 609 days ago
  More suited to working with MNT Research[0] which makes actual certified open source hardware[1] :) [0] https://mntre.com/reform.html [1] https://certification.oshwa.org/de000017.html
  - aragilar · 608 days ago
    It looks like https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/mnt-reform-next and the anyon_e use the same SoC and similar parts (e.g. Cherry MX ULP switches). I wonder how much of that is they're the only parts that would be put in such laptops?
dataflow · 609 days ago
This is crazy. Hats off to you. My guess is you'll have recruiters knocking on your door yesterday, trying to grab you before the next one does. Whatever you do, don't let your talents go to waste (corporations can do that), and think about your long term success, not whatever they dangle in front of you for the short term. You're going places.
- byran · 609 days ago
  Thank you so much for the heartfelt advice! I'll keep that close to heart :)
  - bboygravity · 608 days ago
    Tip from an experienced EE: try to avoid middle-men recruiters at all cost. Go straight to the company you want to work for. Or better yet in your case: start your own company :p
amatecha · 609 days ago
I clicked through dreading that it's got a Raspberry Pi at its core, but no, RK3588 (same as MNT is using now)! Very nice. Ultra kudos for making it truly open source. Great work!! <3
- byran · 609 days ago
  Thank you! Yup, Raspberry Pi's great an all, but the RK3588's performance is king (and RPi would've also saved me many nights of head-banging at the software).
jiveturkey · 609 days ago
came here to shit on this project, that there was no way it was open source down to the ME, like a raptor or framework computer. absolutely required IMO to be considered open source. i didn't find any firwmware in the repo (didn't look exhaustively) but I did find that the SoC this is based on is supported by https://github.com/edk2-porting/edk2-rk3588 . AFAICT the azoteq trackpad has proprietary firmware, so if that's true then i won't call this laptop fully open source. but from a practical perspective, i am much less worried about that then the boot path. love the keyboard, wish i could test drive it! so instead, i was left very, very impressed!
felipelalli · 609 days ago
Brabo.
nrp · 609 days ago
Super impressive, and awesome to see that you were able to use Framework Laptop hinges. Let me know if you need more. We have a ton of remaining 3.3kg ones!
- byran · 609 days ago
  Hey Nirav, super super honored that you saw this! I've always looked up to you guys for inspiration and guidance. Thank you for the offer! Although I probably won't be mass-producing open-source laptops like you (i have a framework 16!), I would love to meet you. Would that be possible?
  - nrp · 609 days ago
    Just sent you an email.
    - byran · 609 days ago
      Thank you!
      - xarope · 609 days ago
        Can I just say that the fact HN can facilitate this sort of meetup is just, wonderful.
        kabakaba · 608 days ago
        truly wonderful
        cekanoni · 608 days ago
        it made my day, I can sleep now. nn
      - azath92 · 609 days ago
        This is the best of the internet. Connection based on interest, appreciation, and mutual respect facilitated with a high degree of good faith. Hope you folks connect fruitfully, and also appreciate that you kept some of the "sent an email" and "thanks" public. Getting to see that this happened has given me a real boost.
        j45 · 608 days ago
        It really is.
  - ActVen · 608 days ago
    This is a great example of why people should not be afraid to be bold.
- ankurdhama · 608 days ago
  Hi Nirav, any plans to start Framework in India?
eadmund · 609 days ago
This may be the coolest thing I’ve seen this year. Wait, it’s January? This may be the coolest thing I’ve seen this year and last. And possibly the year before. Well, well done. Good luck to you!
- byran · 609 days ago
  Thank you so much for your kind words!
unethical_ban · 609 days ago
If you can do something like this, then you'd be great at Factorio! :) On a less joking note, I wonder if I'm decent at Factorio, I could learn this.
- fifticon · 609 days ago
  not only that, you can use this laptop to _play_ factorio!
op00to · 609 days ago
Hey you didn’t mine the rare earth minerals! This ain’t really from scratch! Just joking, incredibly impressive!
jballer · 609 days ago
Incredible work
AnthonyMouse · 609 days ago
I've long been disappointed that we've never really gotten standard laptops, in the way that there are ATX standard desktops. The laptop form factor hasn't really changed in decades. It's a rectangle with a screen in the lid and a keyboard in the base. Below the keyboard is a battery and a system board. The battery has to be replaced when it wears out and the system board when it becomes obsolete, but then why aren't they both fungible parts? If you take any arbitrary ATX PC from many years ago, you can replace the system board/CPU/memory/storage with modern ones and carry on using the same chassis, screen, power supply and keyboard provided they meet the required specs for the new parts (and they often do). So why can't I do this with the average laptop, instead of having to replace $200-$300 worth of perfectly good parts or more each time I want an upgrade?
- coryrc · 609 days ago
  I think my laptops have been split between mechanical and hardware EOL. I don't think the mechanicals would ever go for two lifetimes. But I actually take mine around places and am a little clumsy.
  - AnthonyMouse · 609 days ago
    Mechanical what? The keys? There are people who have had the same keyboard for 30 years. You don't have to design things to be disposable junk. That's even part of the advantage. If you want a higher quality chassis made of rubber-padded metal that can survive being dropped off a table then you'd only have to buy it once.
    - numpad0 · 609 days ago
      No one personally buys a Toughbook new for home use.
      - AnthonyMouse · 609 days ago
        Because you don't pay that much for something to be durable if the durability will just be defeated by obsolescence. Whereas if you could upgrade it to later generation processors, clumsy people would save themselves a lot of trouble to buy the chassis once.
        numpad0 · 608 days ago
        I guess we're talking from a completely different range within spectrum of laptop computing. Hinges, shells, flex cables, power ports, etc. all tend not last longer than hardware end of relevance for me unless it's one of rugged ones, but my use case is to throw into a bag and strategically yeet onto another luggage kinds.
kuon · 609 days ago
Congratulations, this is awesome. I worked on medical devices where I did both hardware and software and it is really hard. I wish you the best and I really hope you'll continue to use your skills for good and open products.
itsmemattchung · 609 days ago
Just skimmed the YouTube video and I'm blown away as well ... anytime my ego needs to get checked, I just scroll through HN posts. Truly impressive
Vekz · 609 days ago
Bryan, thanks for publishing, this is great work. I'm curious if this this build could fit and swap a 13.3 E-ink screen with display board. Some open source hardware synergy with https://github.com/Modos-Labs/Glider/tree/main
6510 · 609 days ago
Besides the enormous effort, what did the part cost?
mllev · 609 days ago
So how long is the trip to Earth from your home planet? And do you plan on staying a while or are you just here for 6 months to humiliate us with your superintelligence?
lemper · 609 days ago
aight, mate. that's definitely impressive. no, not only impressive, i believe it can help you land a great job somewhere.
marssaxman · 609 days ago
This is one of the coolest projects I've seen here in a long time. Kudos! Your dedication to completion is admirable.
shahzaibmushtaq · 609 days ago
An amazing challenge you set for yourself and pulled it off in 7 months is admirable, commendable and exceptional. How much did it cost to make this open-source laptop? My wild guess is it's around $500-750.
ornornor · 609 days ago
I wish I had your talent, that’s impressive! And it took you 6 months only.
chrismorgan · 609 days ago
> A highly integrated, high end, open source laptop. Not sure what’s meant by “high end” here. Performance is a rather important aspect, and the RK3588 this uses will make it slower than almost every laptop on the market. Practically all are twice as fast (both single- and multi-core), most are 3–5× multi-core, and the best approach 7× (paired with 2.5× single-core). Looking at Lenovo India, they sell three laptops that are slower multi-core and maybe slower single-core (running Celeron N4020 or Athlon Silver 7120U); after that, they’re all at least twice as fast, in both single- and multi-core benchmarks. (I’m simplifying to PassMark’s single-/multi-core scores, using < https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Rockchip+RK3588&id=... > and such.) From < https://www.byran.ee/posts/creation >: “In many aspects, the Rockchip RK3588 is the fastest consumer-procurable chip on the market.” As someone not involved in these spaces, this was my vague impression, but it still ends up disappointing if you simply can’t get good performance for a project like this because only bigger companies can buy the better-performance things. It’s an extremely impressive project, but unfortunately will be rendered not viable for many—probably most—people for this one reason. That makes me sad. I wish they’d sell us the good stuff.
- utopcell · 609 days ago
  I suspect that utmost performance was not the main focus of the project. Nevertheless, the complexity of the project would not be different if a different CoM was to be adopted. Even creating a custom CoM doesn't seem that much more complicated, as the daughter board is as complicated since it already needs to handle high-frequency traces as well. Super impressive project!
- barrkel · 608 days ago
  There's a way to phrase this comment better, which reflects sadness on the facts of the market, and isn't a kind of attack on the author.
justmarc · 609 days ago
A huge congratulations to Bryan, a wonderful achievement and a remarkable result! Keep it up Bryan! It's lovely to see HN so nice and friendly, keep it up guys!
Justta · 609 days ago
Most of the older LED display have standard 30 pin or 40 pin connection. Lacking standard is keyboard connectors. Most standard are battery and fans. Maybe laptop should have two layers or parts.One for Motherboard and memory and another for connectors, fans, power supply, battery etc. Then we can have more standard even if a little thicker.
vim-guru · 609 days ago
Congratulations on a beautiful build!
vhiremath4 · 609 days ago
A seriously impressive piece of work, especially only in 6 months. Bravo! :)
teleforce · 609 days ago
Anyone know the amount of RAM available for the laptop? Personally I'm a bit disappointed that it's based on Rockchip. If someone can come up with low cost open source laptop with RPi compute module 5 with 16GB RAM I think it will selling like hot cakes given the software and hardware eco-system that exist round RPi [1]. It just that the compute module has yet to come with 16GB RAM unlike the normal RPi 5 but it will probably just around the corner [2]. [1] Compute Module 5: https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/compute-module-5/ [2] New 16GB Raspberry Pi 5 on sale now at $120 (191 comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42642873
- actionfromafar · 609 days ago
  I think 32 is the limit for the motherboard.
- numpad0 · 609 days ago
  No hardware sell like hot cakes relative to the pain and cost incurred.
  - teleforce · 608 days ago
    Care to explain?
- paines · 608 days ago
  > Personally I'm a bit disappointed that it's based on Rockchip. Why would you? You mentioned Raspberry where, compared to the competition, you pay more for the name while they deliver even the same capabilities or more bang for the buck... Don't get me wrong. Huge Raspi fan here. I have 3 models laying around here, because they are the easiest to purchase. But the competition is not to be overlooked. Also, aren't the compute modules strandarized or compatible? So it should be interchangeable, no?
  - teleforce · 608 days ago
    Because it's the eco-system for software, hardware, firmware, drivers, books, documentation, blogs, papers, training modules, etc. It's the same reasons Nvidia thriving for ML/AI while the rest are playing catch up.
t4TLLLSZ185x · 609 days ago
For those that missed it, this Engineer is in _high school_. Byran, I have been a professional engineer longer than you have been alive, I can tell you right now that I have met very, very few people that would have the motivation, skill and sticktoitivness to pull this off.
- denysvitali · 609 days ago
  And the time. Don't underestimate the amount of free time people have when they're in high school (vs when you have a family / intense job). Having said that, even with unlimited time this is such an awesome achievement and really shows the dedication. Well done!
  - helboi4 · 608 days ago
    Yeah I did some crazy things when I was in school. Had so much time.
    - MonkeyClub · 608 days ago
      And energy... I do miss those days.
      - Vinnl · 608 days ago
        ...and money, apparently? How do you pay for all this in high school?
        sibeliuss · 608 days ago
        Supportive parents. Bless
        helboi4 · 608 days ago
        Yeah I mean I wasn't doing things like this. I was constantly frustrated because I didn't have any resources to achieve the things I wanted. Didn't even have a half decent computer. I had some janky celeron thing that barely functioned and I couldn't even buy books about subjects I wanted to learn. To think the things I could have done if I was a well off kid.
    - underdeserver · 608 days ago
      We all had time... Almost none of us built a laptop
      - hn_acc1 · 608 days ago
        Yeah, but TBF.. in my early teens, my "internet" consisted of a 300 baud modem hooked up to an Atari 800xl (my 2nd computer - the TI 99-4/A was "obsolete"), my "manual" was a 6502 assembly book I borrowed and typed out and a binder full of photocopied notes called "De Re Atari" that I picked up at a garage sale or something. My later teens, some of my time in was spent debugging early Watcom SQL software and working on an educational software app in FoxPro, as well as studying computer engineering (and still working on the side in FoxPro).
  - endofreach · 608 days ago
    Yeah, that's a given. Everyone has only 24h of time per day. And everyone has different struggles. This is an incredible achievement. And i really don't like, that your comment invited other people to jump onboard & comment in a way belittling the achievements– even if just implicitly, to make themselves feel better why a high-schooler is doing things like that. If all that was really the main driver, HN frontpage should be flooded with projects made by high-schoolers. But it is not. It might be contributing factor. Btw: Funnily enough, i would expect these type of excuses & self-comforting negativity from high-schoolers.
    - denysvitali · 608 days ago
      I'm not saying this in a negative way - but priorities shift in life (unfortunately). I wish I had the time that I had back when I was in high school. The time part doesn't have anything to do with the skills though. At that age I would have never been able to do a similar thing - at my age I would probably struggle, but with enough time at hand I might achieve half of the project. This is what makes this whole thing exceptional: this person is very talented and is using his free time to do great things - I appreciate that. If my initial comment sounded like I was bragging I would do it too if I had more free time, it wasn't my intention. I actually am jealous that I get to spend less time on my side projects and I envy those who can build such cool stuff.
      - mgfist · 608 days ago
        It really depends on the person and the school they go to. I've had wayyyyy more free time in my 20s than I did in high school. With kids its a different story, but having a job and no kids is peak freedom. 8 hours of work, then I'm free. Meanwhile in high school I'd wake up at 6:30, school starts 8am and ends at 4pm, sports practice until 6pm, start homework at 7:30pm and hopefully finish by 11:30pm, then rinse and repeat. Weekends just meant more homework and very long sports events (swim meets, XC races for me). Summers were more chill but I was working full time starting from 15. Highschool was genuinely awful. So so sleep deprived and stressed. I went to a prep school so for those who didn't, your experience may have been different.
  - jensgk · 608 days ago
    And money for parts and tools :-) Also many in high school (at least here i Denmark) have jobs after school.
    - nine_k · 608 days ago
      Regarding both time and money, I suppose, the parents of the poster deserve kudos: it's a serious amount of patience and trust.
  - highmastdon · 608 days ago
    Don't underestimate the amount of knowledge you don't have to perfect things. I remember building scheduling software in PHP in high school, because I just fixed problem after problem, and I was not limited by any form of knowledge. If I'd have to do it again, I'd be perfecting the architecture, refactoring everything every other week...